It is pretty commonsensical today that every adult ought to be independent. Financially. Emotionally. Physically. Etc.
Well, I wonder.
I am kind of clear on the need for financial independence. Which is weird because I am not that convinced of the others.
Take the need to be emotionally independent. What does that even mean? I’m not sure. Does it mean that we should be emotionally so self-sufficient so that even if the people we love drop away, we will survive, as the song goes? I have been that way since I was a little girl thanks to the ability to construct walls. It works for me and has been an ongoing project for so long, I never realised I was doing it until I was an adult. I survive by letting people into my affections very very slowly, and once they’re in, once in a way, picturing what I might do were they not to exist. Is this emotional independence? If so, not sure I’d recommend it as the way for everyone.
And then there’s the matter of fending for oneself. By which is meant the ability to do daily tasks such as cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. by oneself. I used to subscribe to this notion except now I wonder – is it really necessary? For everyone? Two points sway the matter for me:
1) If one is meant to prioritise the acquisition of skills based on the likelihood that one will use them, then some people in some situations might be justified in thinking that they might never need to cook, do the laundry, drive a car, learn to swim, etc. Some people live a lifestyle, normally of certain wealth, where they can outsource these duties. It is more efficient, someone who can do it better, is paid to and one more job is created. Why not?
Had this discussion with MinCat and she pointed out that it’s really irritating when such people end up not living in la-la land as expected but end up sharing an apartment with one. I fully understand. If people are living a lifestyle where they need to do things themselves in cooperation with other people, then they need to speed up their learning process. They should also have the good grace to admit their incompetence while learning. I do.
2) Many of these things are not rocket science. Were one to be in a situation where one had to perform these tasks, one could probably master them in a short time. Even cooking. One might not become Michelin star worthy but learning to cook something to stave off hunger is not that hard.
For example, I never learnt how to cook growing up. When I was on the verge of being married and moving cities, my mother got me to watch her a couple of times and handed me some simple recipes. These I tried out on my own to lukewarm reviews. Had I persisted, I would probably have got better. However, I happily happened to be married to a man who liked to cook and further, found a helper who could cook. I cannot throw fabulous dinner parties with homecooked meals unless my husband agrees to do the needful but this is not a major loss to my life. Caterers and take-out exist for such purposes. I am not that into throwing parties anyway.
I had also never cleaned a toilet and only on rare occasions swept and swabbed a house. This I mastered fairly quickly. Washing machines are not hard, though I need to relearn how to use each machine separately. I do not know how to use the machine in my current apartment because I don’t have to. If the need arises, I will write down instructions and proceed.
I knew a woman who has a very senior position at a multinational company and freaked out when she moved to Hong Kong because she tried to do a load in the machine and all her shirts came out pink. She flapped around helplessly and instead of learning how to do everything herself, got herself a helper. Two years later, she was transferred to Europe and was again panicking. She has found herself a helper in Europe too. Despite all the drama, I am sure that should the need really arise and should she really want to live somewhere that doesn’t have helpers as an option, she will learn how to operate a washing machine and the rest of it.
So the question is: does one need to be practising say turning on the washing machine or making dal one’s entire life if one is fairly certain that one would most likely never need these skills? (Amazing as it may seem to some, such lifestyles do exist). And also: Is there some special valour in doing everything oneself, or being able to? Okay maybe there is, but is this something we should all be focussing our energies on? I am not convinced.
for whom the bell tolls 
dammit!!! i knew i shouldn’t have dilly dallied with my post. 😉 but luckily mine is all about emotional dependence so phew. and, as you know, i am on same page.
Hahn, my focus was not on emotional dependence which clearly I am befuddled about. Keen to read your post.
I think if you are a single then yes you will by nature be independent because you have only yourself to count on. Financial independence for me is different than most. I think every woman should be able to support herself and be able to establish a budget and financially make it if she needed too. With that said, I think marriage is a partnership and a joining of assets. So if one is better than the other at the details of the financials then have at it with monthly meetings established to review and keep in sync about priorities and choices being made for the family.
Emotionally I think in marriage I think you are better suited if you decide to let your spouse in. Tear down the walls and let them see who you really are. So even if that is a scared little girl, let them in so they can be in it with you. Allow them to be your safe place to fall when the world around you is falling apart.
Physically, at my house we all chip in to get it done. It is alot to keep up a house and the kids and both work full time. So whoever can help does. That to me is why you have a partner in marriage to help each other out to get the work done. If you dont think you are getting the help you need then sit down and negotiate. When I went back to work full time I said, I need more help. My husband said what can I do to help. I said either take the laundry or the paying of the bills. I gave him a choice and he stepped up and helped.
Jane, I agree with you mostly, but my question is more about whether one must necessarily acquire certain skills (doing things around the house, cooking, learning to repair stuff) if the need to know how to do them is not immediate. There are several countries where people routinely outsource these tasks for their entire lives. Even in countries where the middle class has to do everything themselves, the very wealthy would be in a position to employ help. For people at that income level, is it essential to learn those skills? That’s what I’m asking.
“I think if you are a single then yes you will by nature be independent because you have only yourself to count on.” Again, this is not the case in some countries like India where single people are often supported by their parents. Some people move from parental home to the home they make with their spouse. Some people remain single but count on support from different quarters. And one might argue, why not? If married people share the burdens of daily living with their spouse, why must single people have only themselves to count on?
I am planning to learn how to do all of these things when I’m at uni. Generally, most members of my extended family are utterly incompetent at these things until they go to uni abroad, where they are forced to live like paupers and they learn to cook and clean and wash. It’s amazing, like they’re transformed into whole new people.
Hehe, and they manage right? Some may struggle more than others, but most figure out how to get it done.
I think it may be more about attitude than about skill set. I say this because there are always some things one doesn’t know. For instance, I did not grow up with a car at home. When I went to a midwestern US town for a year long assignment, I faced tremendous difficulty getting to work, getting groceries, going to the mall – I was completely distraught. Until this happened, I called myself ‘independent’ – I cook, can clean, do laundry, had a job. The inability to drive may not have bothered me in another situation.
What matters, according to me is, what does one do when faced with this difficulty? Does one step up, or allow others (like roommates too polite to refuse) to take care of things indefinitely? I believe that learning to be self sufficient in some areas ‘builds character’, and makes one more likely to stay independent by learning what needs to be learnt to get by. Financial circumstances could change over time, and those who aren’t able to take care of their basic needs (I am not speaking of not knowing how to do a couple of things) may either be an extreme inconvenience to others, or have an especially tough time coming to terms with the situation.
It is my personal belief that learning a few things teaches life lessons along the way – respecting domestic staff, ability to handle a new life situation, being appreciative when someone (a friend/family member/ staff) does something for one.
“What matters, according to me is, what does one do when faced with this difficulty? Does one step up, or allow others (like roommates too polite to refuse) to take care of things indefinitely?”
Yeah, this is what I was trying to articulate. I think attitude is important because many of these tasks are not that hard to acquire some level of competence in.
Also, it seems to me that, at least in India, acquiring competence in household chores is emphasised, when really those are not that hard to master. Things like driving and swimming, on the other hand, take longer to learn but these are not part of the list of things one must learn to be considered an adult. Maybe because the reality of India in the past meant not everyone would have the chance to drive. Then again, considering that most people in India are likely to end up parents, there’s very little preparation for caring for a baby, which really is harder than all the household stuff put together. But again, one manages, thrives even.
“learning what needs to be learnt to get by” But what exactly is this? We seem to presume a universal definition that is influenced by our own middle-class standards. But the reality is that not everyone we encounter shares our same situation.
“Financial circumstances could change over time…” This logic I’m not sure I buy. First what are the odds of this happening? What if you have a huge trust fund? Second, by this logic, a wealthy person who never had to do daily chores and never expects to have to, should prepare for a middle class life without say all the frills.
Then, middle class people like us, should prepare to be poor. Which means we should be doing much more than learning to cook ourselves, we should be learning to cook on a chulla and where to source food in those markets which sell leftovers.
But I’ll bet most of us who claim to be independent aren’t that prepared. I know that when poor people prepare for a financial downturn, they prepare for being part of the class below them. My mum’s helper in India makes her son eat rice and water twice a week just in case they go back to not being able to afford anything better.
“…may either be an extreme inconvenience to others, or have an especially tough time coming to terms with the situation.” I find that many of the things we are told we should be training up for aren’t that difficult to learn, so while there might be a temporary learning curve, it won’t be that long. My uncle at the age of 50 lost his wife and found himself running a house with reduced finances. He managed. Maybe not to the stellar levels of most people but okay, enough to actually offer to make me coffee when I lived with him.
I think attitude, as you said, matters most in these cases. So instead of teaching specific skills, maybe teach the attitude of facing up to things? Personality seems to matter a lot. Some people rise to the occasion, others seem to take an “oh blah” attitude. I’ll admit, I’m a bit of the latter. I like things nice but if I have to do them myself, I’ll cut corners. I’m okay if those I’m with do the same.
“It is my personal belief that learning a few things teaches life lessons along the way – respecting domestic staff, ability to handle a new life situation, being appreciative when someone (a friend/family member/ staff) does something for one.” This I can get on board with. It relates to ones present situation instead of some future imagined misfortune. Thus, if one is to play a role in running house, one would be a better manager if one was at least familiar what went into each task. There are tycoons in Hong Kong who have their kids start at the bottom, doing the slog work, even if they are groomed to eventually be CEO. Although I ended up mostly on the editing side of a newspaper, I also worked as a reporter early on. It really helped knowing what goes into getting a story. When I first came to Hong Kong, I didn’t have a helper for a couple of years. I even did a bit of cooking (mediocre but edible). So I know what it takes. And while I might struggle if I had to get back to it, I’d manage.
What I object to is the idea that if people can’t do all these things themselves, they are not really adults.
I agree completely with what you say. A cooking analogy – when people turn their noses up at conveniences such as say, premixed curry spices or stock cubes, it is joked that to truly make one’s food from scratch one would have to till the land and sow the seeds, hunt for meat, etc. 🙂 There is no basis for smugness derived from ‘doing everything’. There is no such thing – for instance many people in India do not know how to make small repairs around the house (we call a handyman when we want to hang a picture).
“I know that when poor people prepare for a financial downturn, they prepare for being part of the class below them. ”
This encapsulates my personal take perfectly. For instance, my husband and I never take buses and local trains (I live in Mumbai). Growing up, I almost always traveled by public transport. If I had children, I might ensure that I do take public transport sometimes, just so that they experience it as a way of life, and perhaps in future if they can’t hop into a cab or waiting car, its not life-shattering to take a bus? Obviously, I would hope that the bus lessons impart more than ‘how to stand at a bus stop and hop in’. This is one way to build the attitude, in the bigger picture.
Of course one can’t prepare for everything. One imparts and prepares for what seems most immediate/ most likely to happen – one step below and one step above. This is why some parents give less pocket money than they can afford to give, make a child lay the table even when there is a helper,etc. Whatever makes sense in one’s circumstances. Like washing one’s car may not be as relevant a life lesson in India – what one pays a car wash guy is laughable compared to the costs of owning a car.
Ha! That “made from scratch” is a good analogy. There really is no end to it. On a tangential note, a similar thing was pointed out to me by a doctor commenting on a post I wrote with a reference to “natural” childbirth. How “natural” is being in a house with modern conveniences if one chooses to give birth there anyway?
Hmmm one step below would be a good rule of the thumb, though by the logic washing their own car would apply too, right? The awareness building I am totally on board with, even if it is much more than one step down.
I don’t think there is any special valour associated with being completely independent, if all or a subset of the skills can potentially be outsourced. Also, we’re probably more likely to brush off knowledge (or lack) of basic skills such as cooking, cleaning, or grooming as unnecessary since we know we can get those done when required (there’s always Maggi for meal screw-ups), or get someone else to do them (as the woman you mentioned did). But I fell that being able to do everything on one’s own does build confidence even if the necessity might not arise. For instance, despite having a car I don’t drive. Having a husband who does, and the excellent public transportation system negates the need to learn driving. But I know that it’s something I should learn- what if I moved to a country where driving is necessary and not an option. Even if such a situation might not come to be in the immediate future, I would certainly be more at peace knowing that I can be self-reliant if need be. (And the husband would be glad to have some respite from driving in congested traffic every single day!)
“But I fell that being able to do everything on one’s own does build confidence even if the necessity might not arise.” But how far should we go in preparing for stuff that might not happen? Like those Outward Bound types think everyone should learn how to make a fire from scratch… and hunt, or whatever.
With driving, if you moved to a country where you had to drive, you’d learn. That is my point. Even if you learn now, and don’t really drive, by the time you get to the new country you’d have to do some sort of refresher course so you’d only be halfway there. It might even be more productive to learn once and for once you are in the place where you actually need to learn.
actually this is where my personal drama comes into play. Yes i can do every single thing i need to do to run my house and my life, all on my own. call people, get things fixed, chase other people. but then there are times like the past 8 months where there have been problems following on the heels of other ones and then returning from solved place or ending up unsolveable because i dont own the house i live in etc and it is no longer confidence building. it makes me think that yes i am self-sufficient in this way, but because i have no choice. and the general attitude of the world becomes oh she takes care of herself and there is never help offered. then you have to unlearn the self sufficiency and ask for help and deal with people’s surprise that you need help etc etc.
i think this question is far more complicated in the context of single people in their late twenties and thirties. because the self-sufficiency becomes all the more important, because there is no backup, and more intense because your life ramps up, you’re no longer living in a flat with four people, sleeping on mattresses, or you want a more organized lifestyle but all the people who can share flats are 25, etc.
Yeah, totally important points: 1) The idea that there are limits to self-sufficiency and learning to ask for help as also whether projecting a complete self-sufficient front can be a disadvantage 2) What it means for singletons in their late 20s.
True, one’d learn to cope when the need arises. My point was about making that transition- from not knowing to handling it with a certain degree of ease- less of a hassle. Of course as with a lot of things, the ‘basic skill sets’ are very contextual. How far one goes is proportional to the quality of life one leads/envisions for the immediate future. I agree with you on the misplaced expectations of adults- it certainly does reinforce gender-specific duties, but I guess it’s something that’s already changing.
“But I *fell that being able to do everything on one’s own..”
*feel
This typo’s making me cringe!
What Mincat said in her last comment – the perspective of a single woman in her late 20’s/30’s. I lived for five years on my own and I saw myself through that phase of ‘ramping up’ when you go from a mattress on the floor to setting up a home and sharing it with other people, it is their absolute lack of participation that infuriates you. But then, I suspect the same is true of a marriage (there being a choice in who you marry might make a difference, but then again, you’re not going to refuse a boy because he can’t cook and you can’t cook either, are you?). I was independent – lug the cylinder up flights of stairs, replace the bulb, get the plumber to fix my toilet, cook my own meals and run the house, but I don’t place a premium (on the acqusition of these skills). Like you said, ‘when you are on the verge of a shift’ that needs you to learn a skill (cooking/ driving/ washing your clothes), learn it. That the other person (roommate/ spouse?) has made no effort (unless he/ she can afford to pay someone else to do the job for them) is what usually frustrates.
Beyond that, I think this insistence on skills and their acquisition is our society’s subtle way of establishing gender roles. Our society still raises an eyebrow on a girl who can’t cook and a guy who can’t drive. Not always the other way round.
“You’re not going to refuse a boy because he can’t cook and you can’t cook either, are you?” But would you refuse one if you could cook, etc. and he was wholly incompetent in almost all household tasks? Have to say that by that logic I should have been rejected as a spouse. I recently described myself to my husband as a man and I’m beginning to suspect that I might be.
IHM in the past has had posts on a checklist for a future spouse and I realised that it’s not a notion I can subscribe to because maybe for me attitude, rather than actual skills, matters most. Thus, although I did not do a checklist with V, I sensed an attitude in him that I thought I could live with as he did in me and we seem to have resolved a lot based on that.
But specific to this post, mainly, I have begun to question the whole paradigm that people (male or female) need to be competent in this whole list of socially defined tasks in order to be considered adult, or else viewed with condescension.
The more I think about it, the whole thing seems to be tribal. Like the way tribes have rites of passage to determine adulthood. So yeah, as you said, gender roles is part of it but there is more to it than that.
I think looking at it as a tribal thing might be useful because it breaks the homogeniety. The tycoon’s kid and thereabouts will have different markers of adulthood than the children of the average middle-class joe and even there, there will be subsets. So when we scorn someone from another subset for not conforming to our standards of what adulthood means, we are are being a bit like the people who constantly told me that I would have to master cooking when I got married. Maybe to them it was just way beyond their imagination that an Indian married woman could negotiate adulthood without this skill… and yet, here I am, married into a medium-level conservative family also. Similarly with kids from a certain background, maybe they concievably would never need to master the tasks that we would, like changing a lightbulb. So are they sufficiently adult if they don’t know how to but possess a different skill set like negotiating very tricky social events with finesse?
Conflict arises when members of different tribes clash and cooperate. Like when I have to be in the same house as women visiting from a small town in Kerela. The fact that I am not on my feet preparing and serving tea must piss the hell out of them. Same with roommates I guess. Though with those, since it’s a long-term arrangement, something’s gotta give.
And hanh, I totally sympathise with the people living with incompetents like me. I at least make effort in some areas (I like to think) and so am not that bad but I am well aware I fall short of the mark of all-round competence. The other point is that people like us usually bring some other advantages, like being very easy to get along with, ready to go along with someone else’s plans, happy to play second fiddle, or just generally being super charming (ok, slap me). So while falling short in this area, they compensate in others, one hopes.
I am actually saying the same things that you are :). I am perfectly fine with someone who has none of the skills I might have, as long as he brings the right attitude to the table. I’ve seen a lot of the men and women in my family and friends’ circle do that and as long as you are willing to learn/ change/ adapt, I am game.
Also, isn’t the fact that the person brings with him/ herself the right attitude/ a sense of adaptability, the real sign of being an adult? At least in my book, it is.
As for checklists, Haathi and I once had this discussion on Feminism – what are the chances that the man we marry will be as much of a feminist as I am? Little chance. But as long as I sense an attitude with similar leanings, I will be ready to bite the bullet. A lot of these things are works in progress, aren’t they? And who decreed that these skills, if they need to be learnt at all, need to be done within a time- frame? So how can I expect it all (or let the other person expect it all, from me) at the time of the wedding?
As for the last point, my experience has shown me both varieties. I’ve struck gold as well had roommates who were unwilling to co-operate and also did not possess any of that charm/ willingness. One always hopes, though. 🙂
Hahn hahn, I know you’re on the same page. Just thinking aloud up there and ironing out some cinks.
“Also, isn’t the fact that the person brings with him/ herself the right attitude/ a sense of adaptability, the real sign of being an adult?” Good point. Also something HR-type people keep saying and I keep mouthing in my capacity as PR person but which I didn’t fully believe until this moment when I realised, hello, it is true.
“roommates who were unwilling to co-operate and also did not possess any of that charm/ willingness.” Hahn, us incompetent but charming souls are few and far between.
In India (I do not know how much it is so in China) the concept of a girl learning to how to cook and manage a home is directly linked to her getting ready to be “married off”. I’ve always felt this is ridiculous.
IMO, it makes much more sense to learn it all for oneself (be it a male or female)…. so that its a little easier to start off living on one’s own. I wasn’t a master chef when I started to live by myself … neither had I managed to learn a house on my own (in spite of my mom nagging me non-stop). However I did know basic recipes, and the rest I managed to learn on my own over time. I am married today, and I manage a kitchen and a home (with some help from the husband although I supervise most of the work). I have two people as part-time help – one for cooking, one for cleaning. I cook only on weekends, that too not all weekends. It is not necessary that I have to know everything from A to Z, but it helps that I know enough to guide the maids on how things should be done (a certain recipe for example).
And I do not know believe in the concept that food HAS to be prepared by the wife’s own hands for the hubby to enjoy it – oh you have no idea how much I have heard this line 😆 Yeesh!
However this is very different from being expected to clean up after yourself (when you are sharing a room or a hostel with others). Everyone is expected to do his/her own share, and rightly so. I’ve had hostel-mates who would throw pizza wrappers around the kitchen since they have been used to maids picking up after them.
They had bee politely told off. Fortunately they got the hint, and things were good after that.
“it makes much more sense to learn it all for oneself” See, it’s the “all” I take exception to. Is it really necessary to be acquainted with everything? Also, it is assumed that people will necessarily have a stint entirely on their own but in the Indian context, do they? I think not. Most move from parental to marital home. And it is assumed this is not the best thing, but I question that too. I did do a stint on my own and it did teach me some things, but I would have been quite fine had that episode in my life not played out.
With regards to the mess created by people who are used to someone else picking up after them, the problem was sorted by pointing it out to them, right? Maybe it took some time for them to get with the programme and that caused friction. Maybe people from the upper classes who never have to pick up for themselves might benefit from an orientation programme or colourful banners that direct their attention to the differences in their current lifestyle to the one they have at their parent’s home. But should they have been spending their lives prior to joining the hostel practicing for when they joined? I don’t know.
For example, a girl once confided that one of the red flags with regard to a boy she was dating was that he just dumps his dirty clothes in the corner of his room for the maid to put in the wash. She felt this was both disrespectful and indicative that he was incapable of doing his own stuff. I would have shared this attitude had I not been acquainted with my husband who in his parents’ house has the same habit. But in his own home, and actually even in his parents home, he does loads around the house, more than yours truly who puts dirty clothes into the laundry bag. The hubby still slips up in the tossing clothes department but does so much else, this one thing pales into insignificance. So yeah, he was used to that kind of picking up… but when needed, he was also capable of stepping up. And that form of laundry disposal works in his house to the extent that the maid will clean up things thrown on the floor but not empty dustbins.
Another example, I recently spent time in a house in Bangalore where there was so much hired help, each performing some small small task. Like one guy seemed only in charge of keeping one part of the garden tidy. Now if the inhabitants of that house did everything themselves, those people would be out of a job. The key thing is, will the children of that family be able to sustain that level of help for the conceivable future? If yes, then do they necessarily need to do household chores? Just to play devil’s advocate, while hands-on experience is well and good, there are managers around the world who direct workers without having done the job in question themselves.
“it makes much more sense to learn it all for oneself” See, it’s the “all” I take exception to. Is it really necessary to be acquainted with everything?
No, the ‘all’ wasn’t meant in the literal sense. As you can see from the immediate example I gave after that, I was merely focusing on the attitude that one might as well learn things because it benefits oneself, as opposed to linking it with marriage or in-laws. I myself did not learn it “all”… neither do I know it all even now! I just manage with what I know.
I am pretty much like your hubby to an extent. In my parents’ home I don’t lift a finger. Or perhaps only strictly when required, which is rare because my mom manages things herself and she has part-time help who help in cooking and cleaning. However that doesn’t mean I don’t do it when I am on my own.
I believe it is the attitude to improvising and learning that matters, rather than the actual knowledge of ‘how to’.
I can’t drive a car and I don’t want to drive one – I’m petrified of being behind the wheel. Everyone I know keeps bugging me about this and saying I can be more independent if I knew how to drive. I don’t agree – I can just take an auto and go wherever I want or a bus if it appears when I want to go!
I don’t think it’s even possible to be completely emotionally independent. We might all have some defenses built into our systems, but can we be completely cut off? Doubt it. And also, not sure if that’s even a good thing to be.
About cooking, cleaning etc – I think it’s enough if you learn when you have to, especially if these are not things you are crazy about to start with. But you do have to learn when you have to (or if you can’t afford to outsource it) – there was this male housemate of mine in the UK, an Indian boy, who assumed us girls would cook and clean after him because he didn’t know a thing and didn’t plan on learning. We gave him a good yelling and by the time we left the UK, we’d eaten many meals cooked by him 😀
Hahn, so if you are in a place where you can get around to the extent that you want, then why is it necessary to drive? On a tangent, my personal opinion is that places that don’t have good enough public transport thereby forcing people to drive everywhere are lacking in some ways. A car to me is not a luxury but a cross. That said, I did find learning to drive in Bombay conferred a degree of greater independence and I was lukewarm about learning, but I wasn’t petrified.
Yeah so same with anything – if apart from the normal level of effort to learn to do something, you also have some personal dislike for that thing, and it is something you may or may not need in the future, then…might be more efficient to focus on something which you are interested in and have a halfway chance of being good at, no? That is my motto in life.
Agree you do need to learn if the situation demands it, and being a parasite is not an option.
I started cooking only after I got married and moved to a new country. I never had to do any regular chores in my house before. I didn’t cook or clean that much. I almost always had people doing it for me. But once I moved here I realized how dependent I was on them. I learnt to do things on my own here, stumbling every step of the way. I think that once you are pushed in to a situation where you don’t have the option of relying on someone for these tasks, you just learn to adapt.
I always try to be emotionally independent but isn’t that the hardest thing? ‘Cause no matter how hard you try you will always end up opening the doors to let someone in.
Do you feel that had you been more familiar with these things before, you would have been better off? Like it would have made a sizeable difference to your quality of life?
Emotional independence… my case is that people should give up on this idea.
It would have made a bit of difference if I knew how to do all this before. But I wouldn’t have it any other way.
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Hmm, so I am really torn on this one. Because while I understand the logic of your argument and I agree with how it hinges on the attitude of the person when dealing with something you don’t know
But there are some things which while they may appear to be basic chores and can be outsourced do teach you other things along the way. For e.g. buying groceries. It sounds really easy but making lists, finding things in the store, comparison shopping, checking for expiry dates etc. take a long time to learn. And when you dealing with a spouse who can’t do it, it’s very frustrating. Yes, I speak from experience 🙂
Another problem I have with the “outsource everything” attitude is that I think that in India at least there is very little dignity of labour or pride taken in house work kind of tasks and this is because everything can be outsourced very cheaply. So most people I’ve seen don’t value this kind of work when done by themselves or others and think of it as drudgery. If they had to more of it they might value it more.
Hahn, so one of the commenters above pointed out that learning to do things oneself cultivates appreciation for what it takes and I accept that point. I don’t necessarily believe that the possibility that an action (in this case outsourcing) might cultivate an attitude of disrespect is good enough reason to engage in something (learning everything oneself), but cultivating appreciation and understanding so that one can perform one’s own task better sits well with me. Even then, I don’t even think learning to do every task is necessary, though it is definitely one way to go about things and probably adds some value. In the same way that some tycoons insist their kids start at the bottom up, and this definitely adds some value; but there are others who have inherited the position and still done well. After all, there are managers around the world who have not engaged in every level of a business.
I don’t agree with the extreme difficulty of chores. I think buying groceries is not rocket science and can be mastered relatively easily. Yes, there will be a learning curve but there is that for everything. I still think attitude is paramount – if a person is trying and taking a reasonable time to master something, then those around might do well to give them that time. After all, even if they practiced earlier in life, someone would have been going through the frustrating process of watching their mistakes. Of course, one could take the attitude that one insists that the people one is in close contact with (or ones employees) be at exactly at the same page one is in life. Also, if someone doesn’t seem to be able to master something after trying a lot, maybe one has to accept that that is going to be the case. My helper still doesn’t cook excellently all the time, I accept that this is not her strength and I value the things she is good at.